[Skyrim] גנב לי את המילים מהפה - ספויילרים

[Googleness]

http://boards.ign.com/elder_scrolls/b5312/206927688/p2

SPOILER ALERT

I consider myself a hardcore Elder Scrolls and Bethesda fan and truly love the series and think they are the best games, however, I am left with a feeling of disappointment after playing Skyrim. I have completed the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, both the Imperial and Stormcloak story lines, the Companions and the main quest. I have just started the mages guild (College of whatever).

With each of the factions that I have completed, just as I was starting to get into the story line, I found that I was at the end of the quest line and was swiftly made leader of the guild or whatever other award was given.

Let me provide some analysis for each faction so maybe I can better describe my frustration.

My biggest problem with the Dark Brotherhood was that I felt as though I was given too much responsibility too quickly. After three generic contracts from Nazir, I started the quests to kill an emperor...whereas in Oblivion I had to do quite a few really unique quests before I started getting into the upper level quests from Lucian Lachance. I remember distinctly the quests from Oblivion, first you had to sneak aboard a pirate ship and kill the captain while evading his crew, or sneaking into a target's house through his basement too release a mounted animal head on top of him or faking a client's death to help him escape another assassin. Oh, and I cannot forget sneaking into the Imperial Prison to kill a target (who was present at the beginning of the game and gave me a lot of grief before the Emperor came though my cell-which made the kill all the more pleasurable). But after completing Skyrim's DB quests, I only remember killing three characters to get to the fake emperor- and killing them in very generic manners and of course dealing with the betrayal and then killing the real emperor. Now the betrayal piece was good as was killing the emperor (I really like our conversation before I killed him and he seemed like a nice guy so I killed the client). But it happened too quickly, in Oblivion I had to prove myself my completing a handful of really unique and interesting quests before starting the actual story line of the Dark Brotherhood (finding the traitor) and having to betray your Family in Oblivion washes out the betrayal of Astrid. I found this problem within pretty much all of the story lines, that everything just happened too quickly.

Let's look at the Thieves Guild in Skyrim. Joining was less interesting than Oblivion- merely stealing and planting was pretty generic as compared to having to compete with two other wannabe thieves to steal an item. But besides this, was the fact that the Thieves Guild in Skyrim was more of a Marauder Guild, where you primarily had to kill a dungeon-full of bad guys to get an item or to find some information. There was virtually no stealing in the Thieves Guild quest line except for the generic and boring side jobs that only offer small amounts of gold in return. In Oblivion I had to sneak through wizard's dungeons and towers and old monasteries filled with creepy, blood thirsty blind monks or sneak into a secret vampire's lair in the Imperial City to get the boots of Jagar or whatever. I had to go through a complicated quest line of just getting rid of Hyranmous Rex which could have been the main quest line of the guild in as itself. At the end, I had to steal an Elder Scroll so the Gray Fox could regain his identity to return to his long lost love which was a solid plot. In Skyrim, I had to do like five quests of dungeon clearing to end with a mediocre boss fight with Mercer...and again the last mission (unless you count the Pilgrim's Path mission as the last) of the Thieve's Guild was killing somebody, not retrieving a freaking Elder Scroll. My favorite part of the Skyrim Thieves Guild was the Nightingale Armor and Nocturnal's Blessing whereas my favorite part of Oblivion's Thieves Guild were the quests. Oh, and I wish there were more quests associated with the Black Briars, but nope.

Oh and this leads me to another point against both the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood: both of their story lines were pretty much the same. They both are weak when you join, and the main plot twist of both of them is a betrayal by the leader of the guild. I was surprised at Astrid's betrayal, but I saw Mercer's betrayal a mile off, because it was so similar to the Dark Brotherhood's betrayal. I felt like I did the same quest line twice whereas in Oblivion the story lines were completely separate. Another problem with these two guilds was the fact that there was no advancement or differentiation in the plot. I was really hoping for the Dark Brotherhood to be a vast network of Sanctuaries and with numerous unique assassins because Oblivion just had the Cheydinhall Sanctuary, so I wanted Skyrim to be bigger and better. But nope, just one Sanctuary (I am not counting the Dawnstar Sanctuary, because it is filled with generic "Dark Brotherhood Initiates" as well as Nazir and Bobette). I wanted to have to travel from one sanctuary to another and meet different assassins with unique story lines and a variety of quests, but I guess not. And the Thieves Guild was the same, just one run down sewer base of operations and that was it. At least in Oblivion and Morrowind I felt like I was actually moving up in the ranks instead of staying as a new comer. That was the true beauty of Morrowind, was that when you were a newb, the game treated you as one. The first mission of the Mages Guild in Morrowind was to collect some mushrooms in the swamps. Boring? Absolutely! But at least when I became the Guild Master I felt like I had come a long way. And having more guild halls is for the win in my book, because it allows some diversity in the characters, it allows for the potential of recognition (only being allowed access to certain guild halls or quest givers after moving up) and makes the guild seem like more of a guild instead of a small group of little significance. I want to feel like I am joining something larger than myself that will require a lot of work to become a person of influence in.

Moving onto the Companions. Another quick story line. I did two very generic quests before becoming a werewolf. I thought it was a glitch at first, because I thought that it was going to take some time for me to earn the respect of the Companions to be offered a spot in the circle. But nope, kill a few bandits and you can join the ruling body of the companions and receive this big blessing. I was excited to be a werewolf, but because it required no real effort to become one, I was deflated when they just offered it like it was no big deal...but then I suppose that makes sense, because being a werewolf sucked. I was too big to go through dungeons easily, and it was harder to see things like levers and chains to remove obstacles. I couldn't access my inventory or powers or anything (which makes sense, but the benefits of being a werewolf did not outweigh my health potions and Fire Breath). If more than two bad guys ganged up on me, it became extremely difficult in battle whereas I stood a better chance of winning without beast mode. I mean, the advantages of being a werewolf sucked. I was expecting a lot more strength and damage and a lot more health. I quickly stopped using Beast Mode, because it was worthless. Another problem was that I did not like how non-Companion werewolves would attack me even after I released them from the Silver Hand's cages. I mean, come on. But back to the actual guild itself. The quests were way too generic, retrieve this piece of the ax, go kill a Silver Hand group. That was it. Whereas in Oblivion and Morrowind, you had a variety of killing and fighting quests like clearing basements of rats/mountain lions to fighting a drug maddened guild of Aragonian fighters. And there was only a handful of these very generic quests before you attacked the main Silver Hand fort and killed your dead leader's spirit beast. The biggest benefit of the last mission was being able to get rid of your own spirit beast.

I am going to digress a bit here. As soon as I completed the Companions I was completely bored. So I decided to become a vampire. Which I did. And as with the previous Elder Scrolls games, being a vampire was fun...for a short while. The advantages were initially fun to mess around with and beneficial on some other quests or when I was exploring on my own. But, the negatives quickly became a major annoyance. To get the real benefits of being a vampire you had to wait till stage four hit, but then you could not travel in the daylight or go to any sort of civilized location without being attacked by the people. And again, this does make sense, I am not saying vampires should be able to walk around in the daylight or be treated completely normally, but the there were not enough benefits to put up with those annoyances. So, I decided to cure myself of this dark plague. I expected to go through a long quest line like in Morrowind and Oblivion to find a cure, but that was naive of me to think after my Skyrim experiences. The whole mission for curing vampirism was filling a black soul gem (which could easily be bought from the quest giver, so no adventure in trying to find one) and filling it with any NPC. SUPER easy. In Oblivion you had a to gather numerous ingredients which included killing a tough vampire lord. And just like that my vampirism was done. I was really hoping they would bring back Vampire clans like they had in Morrowind, but nope, so again, there was really no point in being a vampire.

Finally, the main quest. Too short and too easy. It was primarily search and retrieve or search and kill missions which made it a bit boring. Speaking of boring, the Grey beards were god awful. They reminded me of the talking trees from Lord of the Rings. They talked very slowly and although I truly love the lore of the world, I found myself skipping conversations, because the Grey Beards just droned on and on and on. If you have a good amount of potions and good armor, killing Alduin was a piece of cake, just run around and dodge the meteors and hit him when he is on the ground. And there were virtually no unique quests to get to the last mission. I had to convene a peace council which required no effort, although it was somewhat interesting and then I had to trap a dragon which practically trapped itself and then the dragon just randomly offered to take me to Alduin, and I said sure, why not, and then I had to kill an army of Drugr and then fight Alduin in the Nordic Heaven. I must admit I liked Svvasgard or whatever the name of the Nordic Heaven is, and the music was cool, but again, killing Alduin was easy whereas in Morrowind you had to get a whole butt load of crap to be able to fight Dagoth Ur and had to follow a certain procedure to kill him, but it was better than Oblivion where you could not even fight the giant red demon. However, the biggest let down of the main quest was that there was no recognition whatsoever of my accomplishment. There were two dragons (one of which was sort of upset that I killed his brother and who then left to try and become the new dragon leader, which made me say WTF was the point of killing Alduin if another dragon is just going to take his place) who talked to me afterwards and flew off and that was it. I just saved the world from the Apocalypse and there was not even a single person to say thanks. I talked to the head Gray Beard and he gave me an unsatisfactory response that equated to saying that we will never know if Alduin is truly dead. Thinking back, the best mission of the main quest was going to Blackreach to retrieve the Elder Scroll. That was amazing, it was a giant underground world with its own city and dungeons, so that was a plus. But that was it. I am not sure if I would say Oblivion's main quest was better, because it was filled with annoying tasks, but I cannot easily say Skyrim's main quest was definitely better. In previous games, I had to do the guild quests and side quests before my character was strong and well equipped enough to undertake the main quest. But the main quest was one of the first things I did in the game and it really wasn't difficult.

With all of these quest lines I felt like everything went by quickly. And I am the type of player who walks everywhere, who talks to everyone, who reads every page of every journal and book except the books repeated from Oblivion and Morrowind, I explore every room and corner of every dungeon before I leave to make sure I have all the loot and didn't skip a dragon wall. But with all of these factions, I'd say it took me two hours for each guild or quest line to complete it all the way through. I remember in Morrowind it would take me an hour just to travel to the dungeon and then I had to bring a boat load of potions and magic tricks to be able to survive the dungeon. And I don't think my character is overtly strong. He is a level 31 Khajjit who is best at sneaking and one handed weapons. I play on expert. I have a glass sword and mace that I use with glass armor, and a combo of Nightingale and Ancient Shrouded armor. And I feel as though it is already over. Yeah, I have a ton of side quests to do, and a lot more exploring and dungeon clearing which will entertain me for some time to come, but I ask myself this: what is the point of doing all the side quests and clearing all the dungeons when I was already able to beat the game and guilds without the rewards of those missions. Am I supposed to spend my time leveling up my character even higher when there is really no point in being stronger, because I have already faced the head bad guy, and I have run across every other creature in the game and handled them fairly easily? I used to do the side quests and things in order to prepare for the real quests, but now I wonder what is the point. In Oblivion, I created over fifteen characters, in Morrowind I had over four characters, but in Skyrim, I don't really see why I should make a character just for fighting or just for magika when I can do all of that on my stealth guy who is strong at fighting and magicka as well as stealth. And thinking back, there aren't any quest lines I would want to do over again, when in Oblivion and Morrowind I never tired of going through the guild quests and such.

Now I know this has all been negative, but I really do love Skyrim and I think it is a great game, but at least for me, it lost something that made me love the Elder Scrolls series. In Oblivion and especially Morrowind, there was an endless amount of UNIQUE quests and story lines. Thinking of Morrowind, you could join the Thieves Guild, the Mages Guild, the Fighters Guild, the Imperial Legion, the Temple, the Moran Tong Guild, the Dark Brotherhood (in Tribunal), the East Coast Trading Company or whatever, one of two Vampire Clans, the three Houses of the land, the Blades-which kind of was the main quest,etc. And each of these factions had extensive story lines with tons of unique stories and I never felt like I finished Morrowind like I did Oblivion and now Skyrim.

I will be playing Skyrim for a long while yet, but I don't think it is a game that will keep interested for more than six months. But who knows? Maybe I will change my mind about it. Please excuse the improper grammar and spelling as I did this in a hurry and solely based off of my memory.

Thoughts?

[shantax]

טוב לא קראתי את הכל, רק את ההתחלה ואת הסוף. אני מסכים שקווי העלילה של הגילדות הפעם די מאכזבים. כלומר, הקווסטים עצמם חביבים אבל הם גם מאוד קצרים וגם אין שום דרישות מוקדמות כדי לעלות בדרגות כמו שהיה במורווינד. הם אמנם נפטרו מזה כבר באובליביון אם אני זוכר נכון, אבל לפחות שם קווי העלילה של כל גילדה היו ארוכים ככה שבסוף היית אמור להיות חזק במה שאתה עושה, אבל הפעם למשל אפשר לסיים את העלילה של הקולג' של הקוסמים ולהתמנות להיות ה ARCH MAGE החדש גם אם אתה קוסם עלוב למדי.

[Googleness]

וזה נראה לך בסדר שקוסם עלוב ביותר ינהיג את הקולג' של הקוסמים?

[shantax]

וזה נראה לך בסדר שקוסם עלוב ביותר ינהיג את הקולג' של הקוסמים?

ברור שלא, כתבתי את זה בתור תלונה על המשחק.

[Yarden]

וזה נראה לך בסדר שקוסם עלוב ביותר ינהיג את הקולג' של הקוסמים?

אם אתה מעוניין לשחק בצורה "ריאלסטית" אז אל תעשה שום קווסט של הקולג' בגלל שאתה לא קוסם. בחירה אינסופית אינה גורעת מין המשחק אלא רק מוסיפה לו, כל אחד יכול לעשות מה שטוב לו.

[imac]

קודם כל מסכים אם מה שנכתב אבל אני אוסיף לגבי מה שאמר על האיש זאב

התועלת היחידה זה במשימות assasin זה כשאתה במצב זה אין עלייך bounty כך שאתה יכול להרוג את המטרה אפילו באור יום ופשוט לברוח ליער אחר כך

[Googleness]

במשימות של האחווה האפלה עם קצת Persuade או אם עושים אותם כמוני אחרי הקווסטים של גילדת הגנבים אז אפשר לשחד את השומרים. ישנה משימה אחת או שתיים שהשומרים פשוט יתאבדו עליך ישר אחרי ביצוע המעשה.

בנוגע לגילדת הקוסמים כל הרעיון היה להגיע עם הבנה בסיסית של קסמים שאיתה כל דמות מתחילה ולצמוח וללמוד דברים חדשים דרך המשימות של הגילדה.

בכל מקרה הפנמתי לאחרונה למה המשימות של הגילדות נראות מוזרות וקצרות, זה קורה לאנשים שמשתמשים בFast Travel. לא מזמן התחלתי דמות חדשה וברגע שאני הולך לכל מקום אני נחשף לתוכן רנדומלי שמאריך את החיים של המשחק ומוסיף קווסטים ותכנים בצורה מטורפת.